Responses to Previous Postings -
Updated 10.12.02
(All latest responses at top of the page)
Responses to Previous Postings - Updated 10.05.02
Responses to Previous Postings - Updated 9.22.02
Please note: Those responses that do not specifically mention previous postings on this specific page are listed using numbers F1, F2, etc. for females, and M1, M2, etc. for males. However, those responses that specifically mention previous responses are listed immediately after that one in red color, and numbered such as F1a, M2a, etc. In all cases, the text of the latest responses are in the color mentioned below. Please note that these responses are edited for posting for a variety of reasons. (It is hoped that this format works. If it doesn't . . . well, we'll find another way.)
Latest Responses (latest 10.12.02 postings in this color font)
F7b in response to F7a below:
This
is a comment to the gentlemen who is venting and in rage about why women are
being dishonest. Yes you are so right that there are women out there that play
the same game as you do at least you admitted playing them. That is a start for
you. Well then you are with the wrong ones. The ones who do not have the
SPIRITUAL BACKBONE and the BASE as we call it here. And trust me my friend I
will NEVER want to be your mother, God forbid. I am sure you have a mother and I
hope she is helpful to you and not hurtful since most Armenian women are hurtful
to their sons needs (controlling, pushy, arrogant, ...) I hope yours is just as
great and loving and non judgmental as mine was. So if you have been with
those women who lead you on, I apologize on behalf of them and pray for them
that these women will wake up and wizen up and see the light because life is
toooooooooooooooooo short for these immature, idiotic, ungodly games. I hope
that you have wizened up just like I have and now I look for a man that have
their heads and hearts in the right place. This means they walk God's path and
they know where they are headed. My prayers to you as well as your peers.
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M5a in response to M5 below:
This comment goes to the
gentleman who said that he is afraid to make any comments... Please do not let
this website scare you. This is where we can turn to really discuss our hurts,
needs and wants. I do not think this website is designed to discourage or hurt
anyone by any means. If we women come across as frustrated or hopeless (for a
lack of better word) is b/c we are and there is no where else to turn but here
thanks to Father Dingilian. Please do not get intimidated or discouraged. I
feel better talking about this in an open forum with other men and women. It is
helping me and I hope and pray that it is helping others as well to share what
we have bottled up inside. Maybe this is the only way to really find the
truth, discover the reality and push for the future and in walking God's path.
Pray about it and see what you feel. We are not attacking one another but
rather we are engaged in a dialogue. Something that has been missing for
centuries in our community. I love being an Armenian and I am so proud of who I
am and what I have become of, thanks to God and my parents. But we Armenians
have major cultural and social issues that have not been addressed and this is
the time and the place I believe to become engaged in socialization and most
importantly COMMUNITCATION. Please stay with this website and keep
positive and stress and express any feelings and ideas that you have.
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F9a
in response to F9: This is a comment to the
woman who said that we are fault-finding in each other on this website. No
sister, on the contrary we are trying to face the issues and the dilemmas of the
past 2000 years in our Armenian community that no one has had the guts to speak
up about. I am personally sick and tired of not talking about these issues and
pretend that everything is hunky-dory in our dysfunctional community and I mean
this. Do you know what the divorce rate is right now as we speak in the
Armenian community? I think not. Do you know why we have problems in the
community? No. I think not. The problem is that we just do not talk about
anything. There is 0 communication amongst ourselves. Why are we pretending that
we are so great and mighty when we have a long ways to go? Why cannot we just
say we have problems and lets deal with it instead saying "come on . . .
there is nothing wrong and lets just get along.."? How can we get
along when we have not dealt with these serious issues? Can someone do me the
favor and give me a smart, intelligent answer so I can be convinced for good?
This portion of the website in my opinion is designed for us to grieve and
address the issues that have been bottled up for centuries in us, instead of
getting here and saying “OK things are great and lets just get along.” You
honestly think that things are perfect? Then why are we on here in the first
place crying our eyes out about the issues of marriage?
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Well, what can I say I
guess I am not getting my point across. Well I tried. But brother, I do not have
to prove myself to anyone except God. I am 31 years old and I grew up with
values that “you must think for yourself, you speak for yourself and you act
as yourself.” Anything other than that is abnormal, unnatural and a waste of
time. Thanks to God I have a great group of friends and one needs to work hard
to be in my circle of friends. I don't just let anyone in to my circle of
friends. If you are not a good Christian, if you are not down to earth, honest,
loving, genuine and compassionate, then you do not belong in my circle of
friends and I mean it. I never act differently when I am on my own or with
my peers. Why should I? I am very secure with myself and around people. This is
who I am and I have nothing to prove to anyone. I am not sure what kind of
women you are used to seeing or socializing or what your background is or where
you live but where I grew up and the way I was raised was different. Growing up
my parents were poor and my siblings and I had to work and help out. So no I did
not grow up with the BMW or the big house on the Hills or the Gucci bag. But my
parents instilled in me the best values that God speaks of. Showing off
and proving to others, and catching up with the Jones has always been a huge
turn off for me. So brother, I act as who I am today, tomorrow and forever.
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F9a
in response to F9: I believe that you are
right. As Armenians we pick on each other for no reason. I hate to see the same
thing happen here on this website. So, here is what I ask: Can we have another
page with positive comments only . . . please! I find myself losing hope in
marriage altogether. Sure, you want to go out there and struggle, but at the end
of the day, you want to read something inspirational. At this time of my life
and trying to find a soul mate, I feel I need more inspiration rather than angry
comments. I already have the anger in me! (Editor's
comments: Now there is a page in response to this request.)
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M7:
There is a person, I think that she is woman, who writes long and sincere
responses. I just want to say that I appreciate her input and wish that others
would be as responsive and detailed. I admit though, I am more passive. She
sounds very direct. God bless her.
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F10a
in response to F10: Lady, I do not know who you
are, but you seem to have a very simplistic way of looking at life - its either
black or white, this way or that . . .. Please look around you, life is much
more complicated. When men have a hard time making a commitment, that is because
there are many reasons - reasons that are not unique to the Armenian community.
Look around you - men may not happy being single, but are even more scared of
being of living in hell if we do marry. The point I am making is that it is not
just a matter of making a commitment or not. No, it is much deeper than that. I
would say one of the differences in with my parents, like other Armenian
parents, when we compare with non-Armenian parents, is that our Armenian parents
keep asking us and pushing us towards marriage whereas American parents tend to
leave alone - "that's his business" they say. So I don't think that
Armenian parents being pushy is bad, but it is different and it is a factor to
be considered.
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F11.
I am responding as a mother. Today's Moms are much more educated and
knowledgeable than many of you realize, and yes, we use the internet and read
what's on the web. Many of you speak about us as mothers, and parents as though
we are uneducated, unsophisticated, insecure, manipulating monsters . . . That's
not so. We raised you, for better for worse, the best way we knew. Now, it is
your turn to start making life better. If you see something wrong . . . fix it!
If you can do something better . . . do it better! But, stop blaming parents for
all your mistakes or for being pushy or for life being so difficult! Let me see
what you will do when you become parents! Sincerely, a Praying Mother.
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Female Respondents (latest 10.05.02 postings in this color font)
F10. In
response to a gentleman who claims that his parents are pushing him into
marriage. Well, parents want the best for you (not all the time) but
most of the time. Marriage is a wonderful thing. If you feel you
have not grown spiritually, socially, as well as financial stability, then you
should not even think about approaching women and misleading them. This is a sin
to lead women on. A very big SIN. I am not suggesting that you do that. But
majority of Armenian men do. I have been in a shoes of a hurrying woman who was
given all the promises in the world and the "I love you and want to marry
you" nonsense, without the commitment. That makes me very leery of men who
want you and everything that goes with the package without the commitment.
So you are not ready and parents are pushing you, then you need to have a talk
with them and tell them where you stand in your wants and needs. They too have
to back off and be patient until your turn for marriage arrives. But DO
NOT, and I repeat DO NOT go out there and break hearts b/c mommy dear was
pushing you into marriage and you got into it and realized "oh my
gosh this is going too far too fast and I am a coward and I can not handle
it". If you do this, you are committing a sin. Why? b/x not only you
have been dishonest with yourself and your feelings but you have lied to the
woman and now you have to deal with the consequences. Think hard before you say
or do something hurtful to someone. Do onto others like you want others to do on
you.
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F9. I am sick and
tired of having Armenian women and men bashing each other with accusations. We
are here to share, not find fault with each other. Why can't we live together in
peace - why can't we just understand each other? I hope people who visit this
site wizen up and realize that finding fault with the opposite sex person is not
going to solve the issue!
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F8. I think the biggest problem we have among Armenian men and women is that we are ashamed of saying 'I want to marry!' I think we all make a lot of stupid excuses and end up complicating our life and making a mess. Why don't we just admit it: Women want to marry men, and men want to marry women. Is there anything wrong in that?!!!!!!!
F8a.
Yes,
I agree with the lady who suggests that it is a big problem for us Armenians
admitting that we want to get married. The admittance of wanting to be married
has become such a social disease and a big taboo that if one person mentions the
word marriage, he or she will get a nasty look or the attitude from everyone.
Armenians have fallen into the social taboos of this American culture that not
being married and being single is much more sexier and attractive than being in
a good and healthy relationship. Statistics show that in 20 years we will
not have as many public schools as we have now b/c of marriage and fertility
rates. What is happening to the Armenians? They are adapting well into the
American culture and its anti social influences. If you speak of marriage to an
Armenian man, he runs the other way. Why is the "M" word scaring these
men and sometimes women? I believe it is the parents’, friends, and people's
upbringings. How come the word marriage scares some men and not the others? In
my research and readings, I have found that it's a family as well as a personal
issue. Lack of faith and spirituality, immaturity, family upbringing, money and
fame (most Armenians want to be famous doctors and lawyers and jewelers), and
most of all lack of interpersonal and social skills are all contributing
factors.
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F7. I agree with someone on this posting about men being misleading to a woman about their intentions of marriage. I think one of the greatest characteristics of a man is to be truthful about who he is and what he wants and what his intentions of relationship. So many Armenian men out there are just going around pretending to want to get married or want to be in a serious relationship but yet have no concept of what it takes to be in a good, healthy spiritual relationship. They make up the rules as they go along. Most of these men have no clue which way is up. They are not in touch with themselves and their spirituality. They go along hurting women like no ones business. I also blame the parents of these men, especially the mothers and the way they have brought up their sons. Sometimes it makes me wonder how these men's parents treat one another in the household!!!
F7a. Lady, you
keep talking about men misleading women. What about women misleading men? What
about women playing games, hard to get, and the I changed my mind tricks. Why is
OK for women to play games with men, and men are not supposed to? Please stop
being a 'Mom'! I already have one!
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F6. Also, the response to one
gentleman on here about women hiding behind covers. Well, first off what do you
mean by that? Are you suggesting that women should just give themselves up when
there isn't any type of commitment? Well if one wants an easy way out, then you
can walk into a bar or a night club. Second, the Armenian men need to get
a clue that just b/c a woman is conservative (classy) does not mean that she is
not worth the try. There are so many easy Armenian women out there that
the good ones are being hidden in the crowd. When an Armenian man sees a
good one who is educated, classy, honorable, trustworthy, loyal and mostly walks
God's path, they run the other way so fast that they leave skid marks.
They think grass is greener on the other side of the fence not knowing and
realizing that not only the grass is not greener on the other side of the fence,
but rather it is dead. When you see the good one believe that is the one
and do not question it.
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F5. Men have this image of a
perfect Cosmo girl in their heads (very vain) and think that is gonna be the
woman who will be a good friend, soul mate and a wife..... It makes me
laugh. No, NO, NO, get that out of your head gentlemen. That is only in
your head. Be realistic. Even the women on the cover of Cosmo are computerized
touch-ups who appear to be perfect and that is only from the outside. Yes, I
agree with a woman who suggested that the Armenian men put emphasis on looks and
appearance. If you do not have fake blond hair and fake green/blue contact
lenses and you do no shop and the most skimpiest boutiques, (i.e. look like that
image that the society creates for us) then we do not want to give the time of
our day to you!!!! Well, I have
news for you: those types of women who look like the Cosmo woman do not have the
time to give to God. So how are they gonna give you the time of the day? They
will entertain you for a while but what is left next? I hope this will give you
men something to think about or at to consider.
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F4. I see that many of the respondents have similar views.
But they also seem to be not very hopeful.
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F3. Many of the postings sound 'good' and 'clean' but are
rather naive in my opinion. I think there are so many women who throw themselves
at men today, especially in the Armenian community, that women have to be really
smart. I don't mean be mean or hunt a man. I mean a woman has to really decide
if she wants to get married or not, and then start looking for a good husband
intelligently with eyes wide open.
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F2. Many of my friends are living in a fairy tale. I don't
think there are too many princes around!
F2a.
I guess what
amazes me about Armenian women is this: They claim that Armenian men are not
'princes,' and I don't have problem with that. They claim that Armenian men are chauvinists,
and in some certain circumstances I would agree with that. And then I see what
kind of a non-Armenian man they marry and I tell myself: Is this really your
prince charming?
F2ai.
The
comment to the gentleman who suggests that these Armenian women who claim that
there are not Armenian prince charmings out there then they marry odars who is
their prince charming. Well, brother, I have no clue who you have ran into
lately, but the ones in my church and in the community are all married to a nice
Odar man. These men treat them great and they are happy and so are the kids.
Sometimes I wish that we had Armenian men like that in the community and I am
sure there are but they are either married, gay, and or they do not come around
the community. As I have suggested earlier, finding an Armenian mate is
ideal but not crucial. I know at least 5 Armenian women who are in their
mid to late thirties and are still looking for Mr. Armenian price charming who's
mother is shopping for a wife for them, since they are either busy sleeping
around with odars or they are such cowards that mama has to be their marital
representative. A smart Armenian woman can see that and hear and smell it.
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F1. I get very depressed thinking about this. Trusting God
and praying for someone loving is my only hope. I thought maybe if I knew that
others think like I do, then I know that I am OK. What do you think . . . is my
response OK?
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F1a.
This is for the women who
said have lost hope. Although at times I appear to have lost hope or at least I
think I have is when I change my attitude (the power of positive thinking is
within you). I know we Armenian women want nice Armenian fellows, but
PLEASE be realistic. The majority of the Armenian men are marrying ODARS (which
is fine if that is what they want) so what I am saying is have an open mind and
heart. You can be surprised. There are a lot of Odars who will love the
culture and want to raise kids Armenian. You probably are saying it will not be
the same. Yes you are right. But it is better than being 45, 50 years old and
still wondering where the Armenian Prince Charming is. There is no such thing.
I have more friends that are happier married to Odar men than Armenian men.
So have an open mind and never loose hope or give up on your dreams.
If you want to get married like most of us do then look for an honest,
loving and spiritual person and not necessarily an Armenian husband. I too
would love to meet an Armenian man who is loving and kind and God loving but I
may never meet that man. So go forward with life and have an open mind about all
human kind who is good Christian.
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Male Respondents (latest 10.05.02 postings in this color font)
M6. Where is this
whole thing getting us? Are we any better after these discussions? Are we
getting anywhere is it business as usual? Where is the leadership? Is anyone
doing something productive or not? This is what I want to know!
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M5. The discussion
here makes me very nervous. I am afraid that if I say something that women
disagree with, I'll get attacked in the name of enlightenment. Forget it! I had
enough verbal beatings!
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M4. There is a
taboo about asking for help from others. My ego is rather stable, so I do not
find any problem in asking my parents, friends, and even people I know that I am
looking for a spouse. It seems that as men we somehow, magically, go an find a
woman on our own. That's stupid. If I ask for help from others in other areas
of my life, why shouldn't I ask for help in finding a woman?
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M3. I guess I don't
see any problem with asking parents or others to arrange for a date with a
woman. At least I know the family is reasonable and likely she is too. If thing
don't work out, that's OK. It's a lot better than a dating service that you
sign-up for and don't even know who gets all that personal information about
you.
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M2. I did not fill out the questionnaire, but I commend you
for trying this out. I just don't know how I am going to meet these female
respondents with these good values.
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M2A. Amen.
God I wish there was a way I could meet some reasonable Armenian women.
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M1. The women respond in such positive ways here. How come
I cann't meet them? Or do they become not so nice when they meet a real man? I
don't know, can the women say why they act so differently on a date - like they
own you or that you need to cater to them?
M1a.
The
response to the comment of a gentleman who suggested that women should not
be catered . . .
Get a clue please. A good woman deserves every bit of catering to.
Read the Bible please. Nowadays b/c so many women have no respect for themselves
the men think that no woman deserves to be treated the best (i.e. catered to). I
am so sad to hear comments like these. Where are you guys getting these ideas
from? Who teaches you these? Does your dad not cater to your mom or vise-versa?
Have you read the Bible sir? I think not. A good relationship is like a
plant. The more you water it and you give it sun and soil products the better
and healthy it continues to grow. I am so sad to hear these offensive comments
on here. No I am not asking for the Gucci bag or the Bulova watch, I am asking
you to talk to me in a respectful manner and to love and honor me with you
heart. Is that too much to ask for?
M1b. I agree with
you. But sister, how many women are like you? How do you act when you are with
peers? Do you act in a different way than if you are by yourself? Think about
this!
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